Traveller-digest      Friday, October 1 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1147



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Shiont(h)y Belt
Re: TML Traveller Roster
Annic Nova (was Fw: Shipboard vs. Groundbound salaries)
RE: Pyramid question
RE: Bagpipes (was: Re: Gurkhas - Correction)
Re: Traveller Player Roster
Re: Bagpipes (was: Re: Gurkhas - Correction)
Re: Versions
Re: Meson Spinal Mounts vs Meson screens
Nth Ruleset Flame War (was: Re: Versions)
Re: Another graphics link
Re: Another graphics link
Re: Mineable Gas Giants?
Trav-dgst#1143, TIC EGO REPLY :)
RE: TML Traveller Roster
Re: Versions was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1143
Re: TML Traveller Roster
[none]
[none]
Re: Meson spinal mounts vs meson screens

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:39:05 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Shiont(h)y Belt

In a message dated 9/30/99 11:50:08 PM !!!First Boot!!!, kellys@efn.org 
writes:

<< his, of course, ignores an entirely different sort of risk - that of
 "Imperial entanglements."  Aside from the obvious safety hazard, it seems
 the Navy doesn't like the idea of people carting off pieces of the most
 powerful explosive known to humaniti. >>

Needless to say, isn't Shionthy a Red Zone?...:-)  (I don't have my books in 
front of me...)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:45:59 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: TML Traveller Roster

Dear Folks -

I've been following this thread with interest, clipping and compiling and
HTML'ing everyone's details (thought it might be some use for my Jump
Points), and noticed this:
>> How about I just don't put the emails on the web, then anyone that
>> wants me to put their's up (or their url) email me at a later date?
>
>That's probably the best solution.  That way, nobody has an email posted
>to the Web without his/her/its consent.

When I created my initial Jump Points page, I included the URL (of course)
and the webmaster/owner of each site as an email links (as a bonus). Does
this latest commment indicate that people are averse to this approach?

BTW, no-one has (yet) asked me to remove their name or email address from
the page (only to update them "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!"... ;-).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:28:00 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Annic Nova (was Fw: Shipboard vs. Groundbound salaries)

Dear Folks -

Anthony mentioned:
>Also in the old CT adventure Annic Nova this oddball vessel was carrying a
>family, though they all perished prior to the start of the adventure.

Actually, after Adventures 2 & 3, I always pegged the Annic Nova as a
Droyne hand-built starship. It's an easy way to explain many of the
anomalies in its design and reported behaviour.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:44:11 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Pyramid question

> You don't know how many you have without counting them off your page? ;)

Nope!  :)

> Yes, I'm sure it does. I had a friend with T1 at work, and I was amazed at
> the speed.

It is pretty nice, but it does get a little overcrowded sometimes.

> Harummph. Well, OK, player handouts only then, I was thinking smaller
> graphics on the webpage anyway. Hmm. Player handouts, that /is/
> an idea. If
> the graphics on the webpage were close to the handout, but not
> the same, it
> might give a campaign a feel of depth. I mean, how many
> /different/ pictures
> of our own planet have we all seen? And a large degree of variance in
> resolution, tint, contrast, etc. Do you think it would be OK to use icon
> size (32x32) thumbnails of particular facings on the Web, or not?

Sorry about that.  I really need to make sure that I don't infringe on
Marlin Studio's or NASA's copyrights before I can say "Use away!".  I need
to dig up the license from Marlin and re-check the NASA info....

I'll try to do that and have a "yea" or "nay" for you tomorrow night.

Best,
Jesse

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:00:01 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Bagpipes (was: Re: Gurkhas - Correction)

> You said it!  There's nothing that the massed pipes and drums to make you
> want to go invade something, preferably northern England.
> 
> My Marines use pipes.  Mostly it's a tradition thing, but the 
> effect pipers
> in a small starship have on Naval crew is a big plus.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>



ROFLMAOASTD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I LOVE it!

Jesse 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:06:15 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

Did I reply to this?

Bill Rutherford, Woodbridge, VA


Bill Rutherford
worj@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:25:48 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Bagpipes (was: Re: Gurkhas - Correction)

"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> 
> At 08:32 AM 9/30/1999 -0700, you wrote:
> 
> >> Banned by the TU equivalent of the Geneva Convention shurely?
> >>
> >Only by you hethans who do not know the sounds and songs of god when you
> >hear it.
> 
> You said it!  There's nothing that the massed pipes and drums to make you
> want to go invade something, preferably northern England.
> 
> My Marines use pipes.  Mostly it's a tradition thing, but the effect pipers
> in a small starship have on Naval crew is a big plus.

Ah, the pipes!

One side-benefit of my old apartment in Baton Rouge (since torn down to
build a supermarket) was that a group of pipers used to practice in the
YMCA parking lot next door.

In our Traveller game (now on hiatus) set on Garda-Vilis circa 1100, my
character's regiment, the 1199th Jump Infantry Regiment, follows many
Scottish traditions (as interpreted by my ref), including the pipes.

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:23:02 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Versions

Dear Folks -

Wil wrote:
>Hear, Hear! And, in the case of TNE and GT, not really showing any concern
>for canon settings. Rip, shred, rend tear, fold spindle and mutilate. (See
>Regency Sourcebook) After all they promised the Regency setting for TNE
>would be a continuance of the late 3I.... but then it came out as the 3I
>sans Nobility. GT is making steady and subtle (oft hidden) changes to
>canon. T4 just raped the name to get film rights, I suspect.

Wil, Wil, don't be afraid to let your true feelings out, OK?  ;-)

BTW, for the record I guess I should say that I *hate* the TNE rules and
have never played a TNE game. However, I believe there is redeemable
material even in TNE. And, just maybe, in T4. ;-)

For my money, the Regency Sourcebook was the most useful and scholarly book
in the whole of TNE (well, apart from the whole "Kinunir" issue - see my
site for details - and the use of sub-100-ton jump boats ;-). It gathered
together many references from OOP sources and created a plausible history
for the Regency setting. Sure, I didn't like the wholesale removal of the
nobility, but (a) it was done reasonably plausibly, and (b) you could duck
the issue by making your PCs one of the "continuing" nobility (not everyone
lost their title).

The main beef I had when I first read TNE was that GDW seemed intent on
destroying everything DGP had created for the game:
     - no robots (one of DGP's main PCs was a robot, another a roboticist);
     - the whole area of the "Grand Tour" (DGPs main contribution to
background canon) now in ruins;
     - any thought of a resolution to the Rebellion storyline (designed by
DGP) smashed beyond repair.

The RSB *almost* changed the way I viewed the TNE timeline, and I was
looking forward to more Regency sourcebooks when GDW folded. As one of
those who "cried when Strephon died" (refer to Doug's Silly Trav page) I
found the main thing was that it was really quite sad to read through, in
the way that only a empire's "shadow of its former self" can be (sorry if
that sounds too melancholy).

Oh dear, I think this thread is about to explode into the Annual TML
Ruleset Flame War, yet again. That is *not* my intent, I'm more of an
inclusivist (is that a word??;-). Maybe we need to name them 1st RFW, 2nd
RFW, (ducking)...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:12:06 -0400
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net>
Subject: Re: Meson Spinal Mounts vs Meson screens

> 
> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:26:09 +0100
> From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
> Subject: Meson spinal mounts vs meson screens
> 
> I've just been looking at GT ships (101 starships by Rob Prior) and the
> combat rules.  If I understand properly, Meson Screens are almost
> useless against a spinal mount meson gun:
> 
> Meson gun  6dx10000 = 200,000 damage on average
> 
> Meson screen = DR 10,000
> 
> Net damage = 200,000 - 10,000 = 190,000
> .. or have I misunderstood something?
> 

	This is correct, except the meson screen effectiveness depends upon the
screen operator's skill and luck (See pGT171). 

> There seems to be a similar calculation for particle beams vs armour.
> 
> When I look at bay weapons, it gets worse - for the same Trillion Cr it
> cost for the spinal mount I can buy 40 bays, each doing 6dx1500.
> Against DR 10,000 armour this gives 40 bays x (30,000 - 10,000) =
> 800,000 HP of damage, enough to wipe out a Megalith-class Battle
> Station (see 101 Starships) in a couple of rounds of combat.
> 
> Simon
> 
	The two points you are missing: David Pulver matched the high lethality
of starship combat from the original CT/HG. And Gurps has an even higher
combat lethality. If you can hit the ship in either set of rules, you
usually end up doing significant damage, and the ship dies quickly.
Second most designs (should) rely on the "Not being Hit" defense or the
"I can kill you faster" defense. 
	Review the to hit discussion on pGT167/8 & 173/4. To Hit the Megalith
at 1/2D range for your bay weapons is 12 (Gunner Skill) + 12 (Acc) + 9
(Targeting program) + 4 (ROF Bonus) + 15 (Size Mod) - 46 (Range Mod) =
10 (or less) on 3d6 (less than 50%). This alone will double the survival
time of the victim. The advantage of the Spinal mount is the greatly
extended range upon with it can still kill your ship (i.e. outside the
range of your bay weapons). 

- --
	Thomas Jones-Low
	tjoneslo@together.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:42:55 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Nth Ruleset Flame War (was: Re: Versions)

david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> Oh dear, I think this thread is about to explode into the Annual TML
> Ruleset Flame War, yet again. That is *not* my intent, I'm more of an
> inclusivist (is that a word??;-). Maybe we need to name them 1st RFW, 2nd
> RFW, (ducking)...

As the title of this post indicates, we're probably on the Nth RFW by
now.  If this one gets going (here's hoping it won't), we need to call
this one the Nth RFW, the next one the (N+1)th RFW, et cetera ad
nauseam.

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:42:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Another graphics link

In mail you write:

>> There are some nice SF ships here, especially if you like CJ Cherryh's 
> work.
>>
>> http://www.valint.net/chp/imcr/real/shipyard.html
>
> Awesome pics! Well, not Jesse's, but real cool. This is how I envision
> starships in the TL A-C range. What do you suppose those long struts are on
> the first ships aft section? I thought first solar collecters, but on the
> zoom I noticed they seem to be square rods. Heat sinks?

Given the reference to Cherryh, they are probably the "vanes".
Something to do with her star drive.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:43:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Another graphics link

In mail you write:

> In C. J. Cherryh's universe (any number of books but 'Downbelow Station'
> is one of the longest to mine, if not the best), her shipd use Jump
> vanes. Kind of like Travellers lanthium grid, but the vans are "cycled"
> into the proper orientation when a ship goes into jump to determine it's
> breakout location.

I read "cycled" as having to do with sending power/energy thru them,
not moving them in any way.

And I kinda wonder if you can turn a vane "inside out". If so, I see it
as being a "gauss rifle" sort of thing with a muzzle velocity just
short of c. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:53:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mineable Gas Giants?

In mail you write:

> --- quote ---
>
> S A N   F R A N C I S C O,   Sept. 30 - Uranus and
> Neptune may be giant diamond factories,
> pressing out millions of the precious stones
> under the pressure of billions of tons of
> hydrogen, researchers said today. 
>
> Experiments that aimed to re-create the heat and
> pressure on the two planets produced tiny diamonds - and
> what looked a lot like oil, Robin Benedetti and colleagues at
> the University of California at Berkeley reported in the
> journal Science.
>
> --- endquote ---
>
> ObTrav:  Rather than gas giants being just huge fuel depots,
> they may also have "mineable" resources. Don't know if it
> would be worth the effort, though.

Alas, not only are the diamonds going to be down in the depths, where
pressures are far too high for ships, but there are much simpler ways
to make diamonds.

Diamonds can be grown in a vacuum by using a seed crystal, you use a
carbon filament and as the carbon boils off it deposits on the diamond.
It takes a good vacuum and lots of time. But it uses very few resources
otherwise. Diamond is gonna be *cheap*.

And not only is the pressure at depth in even a small gas giant going
to make it impossible to harvest anything, there's also all that
atmosphere *and* gravity well to dig your way out of. 

Remember, the energy required to get away from a GG is dependent on the
*mass*, not the "surface gravity". And even a small GG has about 50
times the mass of earth.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:51:24 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: Trav-dgst#1143, TIC EGO REPLY :)

<snip Trav version discussion>

[begin self inflated, TIC, totally not me reply]

Of course, if G:T hadn't come out, I seriously doubt I'd have as many 3D
Traveller ships out there as I do now :D  Nothing like a deadline for
gettin' something done ;)

[end self inflated, TIC, totally not me reply]

In all seriousness, I'd already done the Free Trader "Grendel's Daughter"
when I accepted the contract to do artwork for "Far Trader", and I had every
intention of doing more ships as time went by.  There certainly wouldn't
have been the amount of ships done in the time frame that they've been done
in.

Do I use G:T?  Nope, don't plan on it either.  Do I mine ideas from it?
Yep.  Do I enjoy the other artwork in the books?  YUP!!!  (You kick ass
Glenn Grant!!!)  What's my point?  Uh....lessee....Sometimes good things can
come from change?  Hell, I don't know.  I just doubt that without G:T I'd
have been published anytime soon.  Might have got an illo or two into
various BITS books, but SJG is the only other print publisher of Traveller
materials and I've been able to learn a hell of a lot while doing a LOT of
work for them.  I've also come to really enjoy the comments put forth by the
TML community about my work, and have come to rely on the TML's support in
what I do and in improving that work.

Now I'm rambling.  I need another beer.....Probably shoulda' deleted
everything after the last ]

Jesse

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:53:16 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: TML Traveller Roster

It hasn't affected me.  I don't have a problem with it.  I get all of MY
spam from the bastards going through InterNIC registrations >:(

Jesse





> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 5:46 PM
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: Re: TML Traveller Roster
>
>
> Dear Folks -
>
> I've been following this thread with interest, clipping and compiling and
> HTML'ing everyone's details (thought it might be some use for my Jump
> Points), and noticed this:
> >> How about I just don't put the emails on the web, then anyone that
> >> wants me to put their's up (or their url) email me at a later date?
> >
> >That's probably the best solution.  That way, nobody has an email posted
> >to the Web without his/her/its consent.
>
> When I created my initial Jump Points page, I included the URL (of course)
> and the webmaster/owner of each site as an email links (as a bonus). Does
> this latest commment indicate that people are averse to this approach?
>
> BTW, no-one has (yet) asked me to remove their name or email address from
> the page (only to update them "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!"... ;-).
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:59:26 -0400
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
Subject: Re: Versions was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1143

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net>
>
> Traveller LBBs (two different covers, if I remember correctly, so possibly
> two versions)

Yes, two "editions" of the first three books, 1977 and 1981.  And a
repackage as Deluxe version.

> The Traveller Book (hardcover)
> The Traveller Book (softcover)

Oh dear, and don't forget the Starter Edition with all of the book 1-2-3
material repackaged in 8.5x11 format.  Actually, if you look carefully,
there was also a "Deluxe Starter Edition" snuck in there, too.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The TRAVELLER Domain
http://www.downport.com
Colin Michael, WebDev

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 99 22:09:33 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: TML Traveller Roster

On 10/01/99 at 10:45 AM,  david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au said:

>I've been following this thread with interest, clipping and compiling
>and HTML'ing everyone's details (thought it might be some use for my
>Jump Points), and noticed this:

>>> How about I just don't put the emails on the web, then anyone that
>>> wants me to put their's up (or their url) email me at a later date?

>>That's probably the best solution.  That way, nobody has an email posted
>>to the Web without his/her/its consent.

>When I created my initial Jump Points page, I included the URL (of
>course) and the webmaster/owner of each site as an email links (as a
>bonus). Does this latest commment indicate that people are averse to
>this approach?

David, I don't think anyone minds having their email embedded in the
middle of your html code.  It's the idea of an easily extractable
list of addresses that is making some people uncomfortable.

Let me give you a few examples of what I would like my project
to do.  Chris Thrash emailed me the other day saying that he had
just spent 3 weeks at a training course about 40 miles from my
house.  If he had known where I was, we could have gotten together
to talk Traveller..maybe even play a game.  A couple of people have
mentioned that they lived in the same area for years and didn't know
some other TML member was living there, too.  Someone else mentioned
that they would be travelling to Oregon, I think it was, and now
they were thinking about who from the TML they might run into there.
We've had questions about attending local cons, and offers (jokingly
or not) of picking up someone on the way to a con.

The point is, that while we are a close community online, in reality
we are scattered all over the world.  Many of us would like to meet
the people we spend so much time arguing and laughing with.  We want
to meet other folks that play our favorite game.  I'm hoping to
provide an easily searchable list of names and locations.  If you
are taking a trip, you look on the list and find someone living
there to say "Hi" too, maybe even have a pick up game.  If you are
moving a new area, you look on the list and see if you can find
others already living there.  The only reason I wanted to include an
email address was so you would have a way to *contact* the people
you found, that's why I'm not especially interested in url's or
Travcodes in the list.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:22:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [none]

Sword Worlder writes:
>No, no, no, no, no.  A thousand times no.  I will not even entertain the
>thought that 2300AD is Traveller.  I'm still not sure about TNE!  I only
>accept MT because it was done by DGP whose CT stuff was excellent.  I move
>that we adjust the names of the versions so that they comply with the truth
>in advertising laws:
>
According to the original solicitations to my FLGS (The owner knew I was a
Traveller Junkie... he sold me 1x T2300, 1x StarCruiser, 2x2300AD), it was
originally supposed to be set in the Traveller Universe.... in 2300 AD (vs
5600AD for then ruling CT...). Shortly before it came out, the ads dropped
all the Traveller tie-ins... but the task system was clearly Traveller (It
was very close to MT/DGP task system)... and was very much still
"Travelleresque" in CGen... more so than TNE, IMNSHO... And the ship design
and combat systems had very much a traveller feel to it...

Even Stutterwarp was tied to a jump2 limit... just over 7 LY range!

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:40:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [none]

>>AD&D 1st (cover set 1)
>>[AD&D 1st cover set 2 (IIRC)]
>
>
>Absolutely no changes at all from the first cover to the second cover. A new
>cover does not a new version make.
wrong... numerous minor typographical corrections

>>AD&D 2nd Edition (cover 1)
>>AD&D 2nd Edition (cover 2)
>
>
>Different covers, different interior artwork (in fact, there were two
>different runs of the second cover AD&D Player's Handbook with different
>interior artwork). Although there were some changes in text, 2nd edition
>with the first set of covers and 2nd edition with the second set of covers
>are functionally the same.
>
>>AD&D 3rd Edition (powergamer's wet dream due August 2000)
>

>>D&D - original (probably more copies here)
>
>>D&D Basic - Blue book
>>D&D Basic - Red Box

Actually the first set of red boxed sets and the second set have numerous
changes, all minor, mostly for clarity.
1st set of boxed "D&D Basic" in red had a companion volume "D&D Expert Set"
in blue.
the revised (and slightly different, in both rules and wordings) had "Basic
Set", "Expert Set", "Companion Set", "Master Set", and "Immortals Set", and
then they were (except for immortals) combined into the D&D Cyclopedia, and
Wrath of the Immortals was released to go with the cyclopaedia. Most
players will never notice the changes...

>Once D&D settled down in about 1980, TSR didn't have much interest in
>changing it. Later rules editions had different authors, different
>pagination, etc, but the rules were, as far as I can remember, completely
>compatible.

Since '80, they added a lot of rules materials in various Mystara
supplements... to wit, some 8 new classes, several secondary classes, load
of spells, 20 new races or more, each having at least one racial class,
plus the 30 or so races in hollow world... It was really becoming a rich
setting when TSR killed it in the early 90's

>A different cover, different artwork or different formatting for the same
>rules does not put a game into a new edition. Such a concept is simply
>absurd. If that was the case, Traveller went through many editions before
>MegaTraveller ever came out:

at least three...No Jump Torps, Jump Torps, No Jump Torps... But, like
computer software, it is easier to think of traveller more like so:

1.0 - 1.5 CT
MT 2.0
MT + Ref's Companion & Erratta 2.1
MT 2.1+ COACC + Hard Times and Erratta =2.5
TNE 3.0
TNE Mk1 Md1 3.0.1
T4 4.0
T4 with errata 4.1
Mark Miller's T5 (based upon playtest stuff I have seen) 4.2
GT 5.0


>Traveller LBBs (two different covers, if I remember correctly, so possibly
>two versions)
at least 3 different versions of the 3LBB set have been uncovered by
comparing entires (or the lack thereof) on several topics. Over at least 15
printings, without any reference to changes fromm printing to printing.

>The Traveller Book (hardcover)
>The Traveller Book (softcover)

Don't forget Starter Traveller (two softcovers 8.5 x 11, boxed). Rules
reworded in places for clarity.

for the most part, they all jive with 15th prining LBB's 1-3
>
>>D&D Introductory Game....

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:08:11 -0400
From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Meson spinal mounts vs meson screens

- ----------
> From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Meson spinal mounts vs meson screens
> Date: Thursday, 30 September, 1999 3:26 PM
> 
> I've just been looking at GT ships (101 starships by Rob Prior) and the 
> combat rules.  If I understand properly, Meson Screens are almost 
> useless against a spinal mount meson gun:
> 
> Meson gun  6dx10000 = 200,000 damage on average
> 
> Meson screen = DR 10,000
>
> Net damage = 200,000 - 10,000 = 190,000
> .. or have I misunderstood something?
> 
> There seems to be a similar calculation for particle beams vs armour.
> 
> When I look at bay weapons, it gets worse - for the same Trillion Cr it 
> cost for the spinal mount I can buy 40 bays, each doing 6dx1500.  
> Against DR 10,000 armour this gives 40 bays x (30,000 - 10,000) = 
> 800,000 HP of damage, enough to wipe out a Megalith-class Battle 
> Station (see 101 Starships) in a couple of rounds of combat.

A couple of caveats.

1) I think you are underestimating the amount of armor and screens a
typical warship will carry.  The guidelines developed for GT: Imperial Navy
suggest that 30,000 DR from both armor and meson screens is a more
reasonable level.  This is sufficient to exclude median damage results from
bay weapons at close range and totally negate them at 1/2D range.  Even
more powerful meson screens are quite feasible. 

2) It seems likely that most fleet combats will take place beyond
half-damage range, which obviously halves the damage potential of the
weapons.  This has a particular effect on the utility of bay weapons,
because beyond 1/2D range, it's fairly easy for capital ships to gain total
immunity against them.  In extreme cases, bays may not even be in range at
all, while the fleets trade shots with their spinal mounts.  

However, lots of people have had the same feelings.  So the damage
capability of large beam weapons is about to experience a major revision. 
Playtesting of Space, 3rd Edition gave us an optional revision to the
design sequences that will be applied to Traveller weapons.  Using the new
formula, I figure the stock spinal meson gun (which looks like about a
Factor J weapon), will end up doing about 7dx3000 damage. That gives it a
median damage of around 75,000, which can be armored against.  (OTOH, there
will be lots of larger spinal mounts).  Combined with lots of hit points, a
typical GT warship is going to survive for quite a while under spinal fire,
assuming no criticals.  But then criticals could mess you up in High Guard
too.

Tom Schoene

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1147
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